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Apr. 23rd, 2003 04:41 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sinjunWell, that post on rp has certainly engendered a lot of discussion. I begin to wonder if we're touching on fundamentally different viewpoints here.
It would explain a lot, to be honest. There are so many different ideas on what rp is about, and what it should be. And it seems that my ideas are not at all the same as some of my friends. Ah well, that I should have expected. It happens. A lot.
Well for one, I don't think the ending should be completely planned out. The players should have a say in how things end, by virtue of how they react, and what they do. On RS, we run canon plots, but if the players diverge from what happened on the show, then we warp the plot. *shrugs* I think that it's good to have scene goals, and to have a potential arc walking into a plot. Or else you have no direction at all. But, by the same token, if player ABC comes up with some cool idea that I didn't think of, as difficult as it sometimes is, I try to incorporate it. Even if it means my scene goal changes. Now, being honest, scene goals are not often changed. Players are creative, but they're not usually that creative. It happens, but not necessarily often. The method of getting to the scene goal though, that changes all the time when I run a plot. Player D might come up with a tactic I didn't think of, so the bad guys have to react differently than I anticipated. That's cool. That works. Flexibility is the key. And sometimes the scene takes longer than I expected, because I have to work with what the players have thrown at me. I think that players who feel that they have a chance to make or break a tp - that's when they feel that it's not scripted. When they get the idea that it's not just the emitter's alts who are doing all the key things (whether that is true or not means nothing, it's the perception of the thing), but that they share a part in the story, that's when they have fun.
In the battles I ran in Manetheran, folks waltzed in at the beginning with the idea that they were going to win and win easily. That idea got changed relatively quickly, and I do believe there was a moment in there, where players actually thought that they were going to lose, that they could lose this battle. If there isn't that excitement, that feeling of inclusion, then I feel that I'm on the periphery of the scene. I've been there, on Two Moons, on Altered, and yes, on Heroes once in a while. I've been there on RS too, actually. It's not specific to any one game, any one player. We all do it. We all get caught up in comfort and control. But if I keep players on the periphery in what they think of as global TPs (no matter what I might call them), they're going to get bored and frustrated with such scenes, and stop playing in them.
I also think that no big plot should be run by only one person. It should be coordinated by one person, absolutely. But if I do a big battle scene, I want at least 2 other people emitting with me. Actually, 3 or 4 people emitting works splendiferously, as I know quite well. That's how we did the Manetheran scenes which have gotten good reviews from players, if not staff. Communication and timing are critical to the success of any plot.
A global plot is one that tries to reach players from all areas of the grid. Whether it's a big long story arc or a single scene, in my view, if it tries to involve players from all areas of the grid, then it's global. As opposed to local. There are big TPS and there are small ones. Some small ones are Global and some big ones are local. Well, by my definition anyway, but then, my definition on this could be skewed, I admit.
I think most plots fail or succeed on communication and timing.
Well, that was longer than I expected. But I guess I've been doing a lot of thinking on this topic, since questions have been raised about it. It's not exactly very organized, and it's probably not very coherent, but well, there's my current thoughts on it.
It would explain a lot, to be honest. There are so many different ideas on what rp is about, and what it should be. And it seems that my ideas are not at all the same as some of my friends. Ah well, that I should have expected. It happens. A lot.
Well for one, I don't think the ending should be completely planned out. The players should have a say in how things end, by virtue of how they react, and what they do. On RS, we run canon plots, but if the players diverge from what happened on the show, then we warp the plot. *shrugs* I think that it's good to have scene goals, and to have a potential arc walking into a plot. Or else you have no direction at all. But, by the same token, if player ABC comes up with some cool idea that I didn't think of, as difficult as it sometimes is, I try to incorporate it. Even if it means my scene goal changes. Now, being honest, scene goals are not often changed. Players are creative, but they're not usually that creative. It happens, but not necessarily often. The method of getting to the scene goal though, that changes all the time when I run a plot. Player D might come up with a tactic I didn't think of, so the bad guys have to react differently than I anticipated. That's cool. That works. Flexibility is the key. And sometimes the scene takes longer than I expected, because I have to work with what the players have thrown at me. I think that players who feel that they have a chance to make or break a tp - that's when they feel that it's not scripted. When they get the idea that it's not just the emitter's alts who are doing all the key things (whether that is true or not means nothing, it's the perception of the thing), but that they share a part in the story, that's when they have fun.
In the battles I ran in Manetheran, folks waltzed in at the beginning with the idea that they were going to win and win easily. That idea got changed relatively quickly, and I do believe there was a moment in there, where players actually thought that they were going to lose, that they could lose this battle. If there isn't that excitement, that feeling of inclusion, then I feel that I'm on the periphery of the scene. I've been there, on Two Moons, on Altered, and yes, on Heroes once in a while. I've been there on RS too, actually. It's not specific to any one game, any one player. We all do it. We all get caught up in comfort and control. But if I keep players on the periphery in what they think of as global TPs (no matter what I might call them), they're going to get bored and frustrated with such scenes, and stop playing in them.
I also think that no big plot should be run by only one person. It should be coordinated by one person, absolutely. But if I do a big battle scene, I want at least 2 other people emitting with me. Actually, 3 or 4 people emitting works splendiferously, as I know quite well. That's how we did the Manetheran scenes which have gotten good reviews from players, if not staff. Communication and timing are critical to the success of any plot.
A global plot is one that tries to reach players from all areas of the grid. Whether it's a big long story arc or a single scene, in my view, if it tries to involve players from all areas of the grid, then it's global. As opposed to local. There are big TPS and there are small ones. Some small ones are Global and some big ones are local. Well, by my definition anyway, but then, my definition on this could be skewed, I admit.
I think most plots fail or succeed on communication and timing.
Well, that was longer than I expected. But I guess I've been doing a lot of thinking on this topic, since questions have been raised about it. It's not exactly very organized, and it's probably not very coherent, but well, there's my current thoughts on it.
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no subject
Date: 2003-04-23 02:43 pm (UTC)Some plots need ending scripted, some don't. We don't have many on heroes without scripted endings. Tamlyn's Arches is one of those, and it's refreshing (though I'm taking slack for it from a Wiz p.o.v. with complaints from all over on how I could allow such a suggestion on grid). Heroes plays better with scripted endings for the major stuff. However, the problem comes when those endings are told before the end. Then whereever there was room for players to effect things, they don't because they feel they can't. Another trouble is when players that want involved don't contact the leader of the plot. Then that leader can't fold their ideas into the plot and make them feel important. It's a problem on all sides, really. As for joint running of plots??? What's that??? This is the hardest thing to do cause when one tries to rely on another and that one fails to pull through, then you're screwed.
no subject
Date: 2003-04-23 02:49 pm (UTC)I think you missed my point there. Running the scene in my book = coordinating it and yes, that absolutely needs to be done by one person. But emitting can and should be done by more than one person in big scenes, or you just end up with burnt out players.
And as a side note, if I depend on someone else who promises to do something for me, whether online or in real life, and they fail to deliver without good reason, they don't get a second chance.
Re:
Date: 2003-04-23 02:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-04-23 06:44 pm (UTC)I've never had a problem letting players influence things on a plot level, but I see a difference between global plot, and story arc.
Heroes has had a yearly story arc. Year One was the Coup of Cubiyari'Shain and the re-appearance of Jaramide on the World Scene. Year Two was Cubiaryi'Shain's renunciation of the Dark. Year Three involved the fall of Cubiyari'Shain and the rise of Malkier, and now the fall of Jaramide and Manetheran. As we go into the next year, the next story arc is the cleansing of the taint.
Plots: The Bowl of Winds, for example, involved the whole grid. It was open ended, we had a plan for each eventuality. Big plots are best run with three possible endings. In this case: Light gets the bowl. Dark gets the bowl. Nobody gets the bowl. Then you can extrapolate consequences from that. The Amyrlin elections. Whatever. But having a story arc keeps the game focused and evolving, putting players in a dynamic world. Sometimes they appreciate that, sometimes they dont', but I've never heard complaints about the RP that generates. Its easier for wizards to plan and run story arcs than it is plots. I feel plots, open ended or otherwise, should mainly be in the hands of ALs and players, so that wizards can concentrate on moving those year-long story arcs along. They are not easy to move along, they take 8-10 individual TPs all on their own to move along, and an incrediable management of resources to get everyone involved.
no subject
Date: 2003-04-23 07:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-04-24 06:07 am (UTC)More coffee. Definitely time for more coffee.